FrOg On-Line #2001-03

Welcome to FrOg On-Line #2001-03, Monday, April 09, 2001


1. Introduction
2. Follow-Up to "Important Question"
3. Follow-Up to The "List"
4. The Home Lab
5. The Glowing Future
6. Misc. News
7. "Subscriber" List

1. Introduction


Section 3 contains a discussion of Charlesite and the list of minerals unique
to FrOg.  In Section 4, Chris Thorsten gives some unfiltered UV observations.
More events are listed in Section 5.

God willing, I will be at the NJESA Show.  I hope to see many of you there.

This will be the last FrOg On-Line issue before the NJESA Show.


2. Follow-Up to "Important Question"

In the last FrOg On-Line, I asked about the possibility of making future FrOg
On-Line issues attachments, perhaps html attachments, to otherwise empty
messages.  Several people preferred to keep things the way they are.  So I
will.  Perhaps someday, when technology, prices, my budget, and my schedule
allow, I'll have my own equipment at home, my own internet connection, and I'll
have the time and resources to manage two subscriber lists, and I'll then do
two e-mailings, one with the FrOg On-Line issue as the message body, and one
with the issue as an html attachment.  I generate the html now (for the FrOg
On-Line Archive hosted by Chris Thorsten), but managing two lists is more than
I can now handle.  I'm strugglisng just to do what I do now.

3. Follow-Up to The "List"

From: Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV
Subject: RE: FrOg On-Line #2001-02.
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:21:21 -0500 

A question as to whether or not charlesite is unique to Franklin.  Some have or
are currently searching for published reports of its occurrence outside the
FrOg area.  I can report to you that there is a very large matrix free white
charlesite crystal from the Kalahari manganese field on display in the
Smithsonian.  It is an incredible crystal and if you are in the area, you
should go and see it!!  Of course, there are minor distractions like the Hope


Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:29:16 +0000
From: William Mattison <>
To: Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV, John Ciancuilli <>
Subject: Re: FrOg On-Line #2001-02.

Pete and John:

I've heard reports of Johnbaumite from Langban, too.  In fact, several years
ago, at either the Denver show or the Tucson show, I bought from a European
dealer a thumbnail labelled Johnbaumite from Langban.  Pretty fluorescent, as I
vaguely recall.

John, I'm curious:  what are the rules/standards for the list of FrOg unique



Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:47:03 -0500
From: John Cainciulli <>
Organization: FMM
To: William Mattison <>
Subject: Re: FrOg On-Line #2001-02.

        I have several people including myself tracking down the charlesite
question.  Dunn and Baum were the keepers of the list when rumors of a second
charlesite occurrence surface 11 years ago.  To this day nothing has been found
in the literature describing a second find of charlesite.  Dealers have been
selling the stuff for quite a while giving foreign references that cite Dunn's
original paper.  All of the xls reported to be charlesite have turned out to be
ettringite.  The xl habit is exactly like ettringite (stout hexagonal rhombs).
Franklin material is bi-pyramidal.  I have attempted to buy the so-called
charlesite from internet sources and have consistently run into trouble
acquiring the material.  Maybe I would be more successful if I misrepresented
myself?  Johnbaumite was rumored to have been found at Langban several years
ago.  Again I have yet to see it in the literature.  It should be listed in the
new Langban book.  If it is photo copy the reference and send it to me.  I hope
you guys will keep looking for stuff.  If we can validate changes through the
literature (not dealer stuff) I will make the appropriate changes.  By the way,
one would expect to find johnbaumite at langban since there is a lot of svabite
found there and the two minerals are closely related......JC


From: Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: FrOg On-Line #2001-02.]
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:35:35 -0500 

I  don't know about the literature search  in the scientific journals, but the
fact is that the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History has a crystal of
Charlesite from the Kalahari manganese deposit on PUBLIC DISPLAY!!!!


[Sometime between March 09 and March 21, I sent a message
[to both John and Pete.  Unfortunately, the message has
[been lost.  But here basically is what I said:
[I am not familiar with the inner workings of the
[Smithsonian.  So I do not know whether the labelling of
[the displayed Charlesite specimen is based on the label
[provided by the specimen's seller/donar, or on analysis
[done by the Smithsonian.  So I would be wary of putting
[too much faith on the label in the display until the
[basis of the identification is known.
[I do believe John is correct in insisting on proper
[documentation before making changes to either of the two
[mineral lists he maintains.
[- mod.


Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:06:08 -0500
From: John Cainciulli <>
Organization: FMM
To: William Mattison <>
Subject: Re: question.

William Mattison wrote:
> Hi John,
> Is it ok with you if I publish in FrOg On-Line the e-mail conversation you,
> I, and Pete Chin had regarding Charlesite, Johnbaumite, and the FrOg mineral
> list?
> Bill.
                Make sure you stress these minerals will remain on the unique
list until someone sends a document officially describing the second occurrence
of each. Collector skuttlebut does not count........JC


From: Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV
Subject: RE: Request.
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:10:30 -0400 

[...]                            The original paper on Sturmanite by Peacor et
al had stated that cores of some sturmanite crystals were charlesite.  Thus,
charlesite is not unique to the Franklin deposit. 


From: Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV
Subject: RE: FrOg On-Line #2001-01.  (2nd try)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 08:24:06 -0400 

I have additional info on the charlesite question: Caincross and Dixon,
Minerals of South Africa, page 197 also reports charlesite as cores of some
sturmanite crystals.


From: []
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 8:32 AM
To:   Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV
Subject:      Re: FrOg On-Line #2001-01.  (2nd try)

Hi Pete,

I received both messages; I will include it/them in the next FrOg On-Line,
which I'm hoping to get out next week.  Have you given the info to John C.?



From: Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV
Subject: RE: FrOg On-Line #2001-01.  (2nd try)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 08:36:41 -0400 

Yes, I have. In fact he gave me the citation fore the original paper by
Peacor (?). I will try to find it.

4. The Home Lab

Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:26:38 -0500
From: Chris <>
To: "William C. Mattison" <>
Subject: home lab part 1

Hi Bill,

here's a mini "home lab" report... nothing fancy, really, but might prove
useful to someone out there:

I had been looking through the 10x loupe at some chunks of Buckwheat dolomite
I'd brought home last summer.  Recently I found a translucent, yellow, equant
crystal sitting right next to a tarnished pyritohedron in a dolomite vug.  The
crystal didn't resemble anything I'd seen before- except perhaps monazite-Ce.
With such a tiny crystal (ca. 0.25 mm across in largest dimension) I had no way
to do a chemical test without destroying it (at least not in a "home lab").  I
recalled something I'd read about translucent crystals of monazite- they often
fluoresce greenish under unfiltered shortwave.

So I took the filter off my Superbright.  I set the crystal up under the
microscope so it was in focus under the white light.  I then put the goggles on
my face, just under my eyes, to shield me somewhat from the unfiltered SW that
would soon be beaming all over the place.  With the lights out and my eyes well
adjusted, I peered through the 'scope while holding the unfiltered SW on the
sample.  The tiny crystal was fluorescing greenish;  although very weak in the
glare of unfiltered UV, the color was definitely there.  There were also traces
of greenish fluorescence on the rhombs of dolomite around the crystal,
suggesting extra monazite that hadn't coalesced into recognizable crystals...
or maybe a bit of the activator that had leached out of the crystal due to


5. The Glowing Future

Information here was obtained from the Franklin Mineral Museum web site.

April 21 (Saturday)
  FOMS field trip, Sterling Hill Mining Museum mine run dump, 9am to noon,
    $1 per pound, $10 minimum.
  FOMS meeting and lecture, 1:30 pm, Franklin Mineral Museum.  Lecture will be
      "The Significance of the Odgenburg and Franklin Mines in the N.J. Zinc
      Process in Palmerton" by Peter Kern.
  Saturday Night Collecting on the mine run dump, 6:30pm to 9pm, SHMM members

April 28-29 (Saturday and Sunday))
  NJESA show, Littell Center.  See FrOg On-Line #2000-07 for details (past
  issues may be found on the web at url "").

April 28 (Saturday)
  Trotter Dump Field Trip, 9am to 7pm, see Frog On-Line #2000-07 (available in
      the FrOg On-Line Archive at url "") for
  Trotter Dump Night Collecting, 7:30pm to 11pm, see Frog On-Line #2000-07
      (available in the FrOg On-Line Archive at url
      "") for details.
  Banquet and Auction, starts at 6:30pm, Sterling Hill Mining Museum, limited
      to the first 100 people to purchase tickets.

April 29 (Sunday)
  Sunday Afternoon Sterling Hill Garage Sale, 1st Annual event. 1pm to 3pm at
      the Sterling Hill Mining Museum.

May 06 (Sunday)
  Volunteer Appreciation and Miners' Tribute Day.  Ceremonies begin at 1pm with
      concert and food to follow, franklin Mineral Museum.

May 19 (Saturday)
  Passaic and Noble Pit Collecting, 8am - 3pm, SHMM members only.
  FOMS field trip, Buckwheat Dump, 9am to noon.
  Micro Group meeting, 10am to noon, Franklin Mineral Museum.
  FOMS meeting and lecture, 1:30 pm, Franklin Mineral Museum.  Lecture will be
      "Sudbury structure, Meteoric impact, Nickel deposits and the
      Environmental Impact of Smelting" by Dr. Dru Germanowski.

May 20 (Sunday)
  Lime Crest invitational, 9am to 3pm.

June 02 (Saturday)
  Night Dig on the Buckwheat Dump.  Contact the Franklin Mineral Museum for

June 16 (Saturday)
  FOMS field trip, Franklin Quarry, 9am to noon.
  FOMS meeting and lecture, 1:30 pm, Franklin Mineral Museum.  Robert Metsger,
      Geologist for the New Jersey Zinc Co and author of many papers on the
      zinc ore deposits at Franklin and Sterling Hill, will speak to us about
      his findings.

September 29-30 (Saturday and Sunday)
  Franklin Show, Washington School.  I'll publish more about this in a later

September 29 (Saturday)
  FOMS Banquet - Auction, starts at 7pm, Immaculate Conception Lyceum Hall,

November 03 (Saturday)
  Night Dig on the Buckwheat Dump.  Contact the Franklin Mineral Museum for

6. Misc. News

Fred Parker of Parker Minerals told me he will not be setting up indoors at the
NJESA Show this year.  Rather, he will set up outdoors (in the swap-and-sell

Dale Hewin of Hewin's Minerals told me by e-mail he will be moving to Arizona
most likely late this spring.  Collectors and dealers moving great distances
tend to try to thin out their collection and stock, so maybe, just maybe,
though he has not said anything, there may be "extra reasons" to check out his
booth at the NJESA Show later this month.

Except for a going-out-of-business sale at the Goucher Swap-and-Sell and
possible private individual sales, Glowing Rocks (Bill Mattison) will no longer
be retailing.  I will *not* be setting up in the swap-and-sell area at the
NJESA Show.  I will be the show, and I hope to see many of you around.  I have
not stopped buying for my collection (as Fred Parker and Bob Jenkins can
attest); I've only stopped selling.

7. "Subscriber" List

NJ   Larry Berger
NC   Alan Borg 
NY   Dick Bostwick
NJ   Mark Boyer
CA   Kevin Brady
PA   Bob Carnein
VA   Peter Chin          Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV
NJ   John Cianciulli
NJ   John Corsello
CT   Denis De Angelis
CA   Fred Devito
FL   Sandra Downs
NY   Howie Green
MD   Gary Grenier
MN   Tim Hanson
NY   Tema Hecht
CA   Andy Honig
CA   Mark Isaacs
MI   John Jaszczak
NY   Carl Kanoff
NJ   Steve Kuitems
FL   Roy Lambert
NY   Donald Lapham
NY   Greg Lesinski
PA   Jay Lininger
PA   Mike Logan
CO   Peter Marikle
MD   Bill Mattison
CA   Dan McHugh
NJ   Dan McHugh Sr.
VA   Curt Michanczyk
CA   Doug Mitchell
CO   Pete Modreski
WA   Don Newsome
NJ   Jeff Osowski
AZ   George Polman
NJ   Nathan Schachtman
NY   Paul Shizume
MD   Steve Shramko
NJ   Dave Slaymaker
CT   Charles Sloan
CA   Jane Grover-Smith
CA   Kent Smith
NJ   Chris Thorsten
NJ   Jim Tozour
NJ   Earl Verbeek
PA   John Vidumsky
PA   Eric Weis 
NM   Dru Wilbur
VA   David Woolley
FL   Herb Yeates
CA   Wayne Young

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