FrOg On-Line #2001-04



Welcome to FrOg On-Line #2001-04, Monday, May 14, 2001

Contents
========

1. Introduction
2. Follow-Up to The Home Lab
3. "Subscriber" List


1. Introduction
===============

Greetings.  Hopefully, y'all are recovered from the NJESA Show.

Sunday, April 29, in the saddle area between the Passiac and Noble Pits, one
of the collectors digging there asked to subscribe to FrOg On-Line, and gave me
a piece of paper with his e-mail address.  Unfortunately, I lost it, and I've
completely forgotten both his name and his e-mail address.  The only things I
do recall is that he is a Caucasian male, and he works for SAIC (Science
Applications International Corp.).  If anyone knows his name or a-mail address,
please let me know, or have him e-mail me.

The FrOg On-Line Archive has a new web address:
      "http://www.njminerals.org/FOINDEX.HTM"
Chris Thorsten continues to host the archive.  His home page is now at
      "http://www.njminerals.org"
I have tried it; it works great.

This issue consists mainly of a discussion of Chris Thorsten's home lab work on
Monazite, first reported in FrOg On-Line #2001-03.

The next issue, already in preparation, will be dedicated to a discussion of
Charlesite and two of the FrOg mineral lists.

As far as I know, there are no new activities or events to be added to what was
in FrOg On-Line #2001-03, so see that issue for the schedule of events.

Enjoy.


2. Follow-Up to The Home Lab
============================

From: "earl verbeek" <earlverbeek@hotmail.com>
To: chris@atomic-pc.com
Cc: mattison@thunder.nws.noaa.gov
Subject: monazite
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:43:51 -0400

Good morning Chris,

Just read the latest FrOg issue and mention of monazite fluorescing under
unfiltered UV.  Minor correction there, as what you see is not fluorescence but
simple reflection, in this case of the very strong Hg emission line at .  .  .
what?  .  .  .  536 nm or so?  I can't remember the exact wavelength, but it's
in the green portion of the spectrum and is a whopper of a peak.  It's filtered
out by the SW filter, so monazite generally will not fluoresce green with a
filtered SW lamp (unless it's uranyl-activated, like the Madagascan material
seems to be), but the reflection of the Hg emission line under unfiltered SW is
a good test.

By the way, a number of other rare-earth minerals do this too, and it's
fortunate they do, because some of them can be quite inconspicuous in their
host rock.  The Mountain Pass, CA ores are a case in point, as some of them are
just loaded with rare-earth minerals but look like ordinary rocks until you
hold them under that unfiltered lamp.

---------------

From: "earl verbeek" <earlverbeek@hotmail.com>
To: mattison@thunder.nws.noaa.gov, everbeek@nac.net, chris@atomic-pc.com
Subject: Re: monazite
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:34:48 -0400

Hi Bill and Chris,

I have no objection to using my little note in a FrOg newsletter, IF it's OK 
with Chris.  I know some people are sensitive about corrections appearing in 
print, and I am one of them unless the correction is done tactfully and with an
intent to help.  I am not the one to judge whether that impression comes 
through in my note, so it's Chris' call.

Most monazite is tan to brown in daylight, and quite a few other rare-earth 
minerals are various pale colors, so they tend not to stand out very well in 
the rocks that contain them.  As far as I know the rare earths are not 
chromophores, thus explaining the general lack of vivid coloration.  And Bill,
you guessed just right, these minerals do selectively reflect light with a
wavelength near that of the mercury resonance line.  It's almost like holding
up a mirror.  When looking at unfiltered SW light we're not particularly aware
of how much green light is in it, but the selective reflection from the rare
earth minerals shows it quite nicely.

If I remember I'll try to look up an absorption spectrum for monazite and send
it to you.  I don't know if I have one on file, but I know where to look on the
Internet.  Bless you, CalTech.


                                         Cheers-   Earl

---------------

Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:55:57 -0400
From: Chris <chris@atomic-pc.com>
To: everbeek@nac.net, Bill Mattison <mattison@thunder.nws.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: monazite

Earl and Bill,

it's cool w/ me... I think it may be helpful to others to print it also.  I
don't think mercury-line reflection is a well-known or obvious enough fact that
someone's going to pounce on me and say "duh", so I'm okay with that... but I
appreciate Earl's consideration nonetheless.

By the way, the Buckwheat monazites and synchysites that I've seen in the
collections of the FMM, Steve Kuitems, and Joe Klitsch are typically pale
yellow, honey-lemon yellow (like a Luden's cough drop) or even pinkish-yellow -
and usually transparent.  Steve and Joe both have found quite a few of these
tiny crystals on the dump.  John C. has a couple of exceptional ones he's shown
me, too.  Unfortunately, there are none that would qualify as "cabinet
specimens"... sorry, Bill, no macro monazites yet   : )

-Chris Thorsten

---------------

Sender: mattison@thunder.nws.noaa.gov
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:27:34 +0000
From: William Mattison <mattison@thunder.nws.noaa.gov>
To: Chris Thorsten <chris@atomic-pc.com>, Earl Verbeek <everbeek@nac.net>
Subject: Hg Emission spectra.

Interesting discussion so far.  I'd like to see this phenomenon for myself one
of these days.

This past month, Rod Towers of the Gem, Lapidary, and Mineral Society of
Montgomery County, Maryland (the local club to which I belong) gave me a
holographic diffraction grating (6000 lines per inch), purchased from Edmund
Scientific.  The accompanying pamphlet (by Stephen Jacobs of the Optical
Sciences Center at the University of Arizona) lists the following emission
peaks for mercury: 577 and 579nm (yellow, a doublet), 546nm (green), 436nm
(blue), 365nm (lw uv), 313nm (mw uv), and 254nm (sw uv).

Bill.

---------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:16:59 -0700
From: Richard Bostwick <rbostwick@worldnet.att.net>
To: William Mattison <mattison@thunder.nws.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: FrOg On-Line #2001-03.

Regarding Chris's observation about the "fluorescence" of Franklin monazite:

1) According to Sterling Gleason, who gives Murata and Bastron of the USGS
credit for the information, monazite does not fluoresce under shortwave UV but
is selectively reflecting the green light emitted by the unfiltered Hg arc.
(Gleason p. 196)  This is confirmed in the "Henkel Glossary" in the monazite
entry on p. 57 in the brackets which indicate placement of the information by
the editors, Pete Modreski and Earl Verbeek. I have seen the phenomenon (though
I have not had a chance to confirm it in Franklin monazite) and it certainly
looks like fluorescence.  However, the fact that one doesn't see green under
filtered SW is a clue.

2) Chris deserves a lot of credit for this observation, which confirms an
important diagnostic use of shortwave UV.  In other words, this is probably the
easiest way by far to identify monazite-(Ce) from Franklin - a very rare and
desirable mineral from that locality.  Thank you, Chris, for passing along that
information.

Dick Bostwick  

---------------

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 16:53:06 -0400
From: Doug Mitchell <DMitchell@compuserve.com>
Subject: Monazite "fluorescence"
To: William Mattison <mattison@thunder.nws.noaa.gov>

Hi, Bill--
Chris Thorsten's report in FrOg On-Line #2001-03 used the unfiltered shortwave
UV test for monazite on a micro crystal in a Buckwheat Dump dolomite.  He
referred to the green "fluorescence" of the crystal under the unfiltered light
of a shortwave UV lamp.  According to "Ultraviolet Guide to Minerals", by
Sterling Gleason, this green appearance is not fluorescence, but rather a
colored reflection of visible light from the shortwave UV lamp. The UV lamp's
visible light has unusual spectral features that emphasize a green reflection
caused by neodymium, thus establishing the substantial presence of rare earth
elements.  Bastnaesite, and probably some other rare earth minerals, will react
similarly to this test.

Given this explanation, the test should work equally well if you put a piece of
glass or any UV absorbing material over the shortwave UV lamp.  This should
make the matter of UV protection simpler.

--Doug
P.S. Please feel free to include this in a FrOg online.


3. "Subscriber" List
====================

NJ   Larry Berger        lberger1@mindspring.com
NC   Alan Borg           aborg@brinet.com
NY   Dick Bostwick       rbostwick@worldnet.att.net
NJ   Mark Boyer          mboyer@pace2001.com
CA   Kevin Brady         ktbrady@temvalley.com
PA   Bob Carnein         ccarnein@eagle.lhup.edu
VA   Peter Chin          Peter.Chin@USPTO.GOV
NJ   John Cianciulli     rockman@warwick.net
NJ   John Corsello       corsello@bellatlantic.net
CT   Denis De Angelis    rockden@mindspring.com
CA   Fred Devito         devito@sierratel.com
FL   Sandra Downs        SdownsFLA@aol.com
NY   Howie Green         Royal53@worldnet.att.net
MD   Gary Grenier        william.grenier@mercantile.net
MN   Tim Hanson          tim@ens.net
NY   Tema Hecht          thecht@worldnet.att.net
CA   Andy Honig          andym@lightspeed.net
CA   Mark Isaacs         isaacsmark@hotmail.com
MI   John Jaszczak       jaszczak@mtu.edu
NY   Carl Kanoff         MCDKan@clarityconnect.com
NJ   Steve Kuitems       skuitems@eclipse.net
FL   Roy Lambert         rlambert@ufl.edu
NY   Donald Lapham       donald_lapham@fmc.com
NY   Greg Lesinski       Gslrocks@aol.com
PA   Jay Lininger        matrix@redrose.net
PA   Mike Logan          mikelogan@sprintmail.com
CO   Peter Marikle       peter.a.marikle@lmco.com
MD   Bill Mattison       mattison@thunder.nws.noaa.gov
CA   Dan McHugh          dmchugh@eee.org
NJ   Dan McHugh Sr.      dansart1@aol.com
VA   Curt Michanczyk     CurtMich@aol.com
CA   Doug Mitchell       DMitchell@compuserve.com
CO   Pete Modreski       pmodresk@usgs.gov
WA   Don Newsome         uvsystems@aol.com
NJ   Jeff Osowski        jvotmo@blast.net
AZ   George Polman       polmans@compuserve.com
NJ   Nathan Schachtman   nschacht@voicenet.com
NY   Paul Shizume        s1153fam@aol.com
MD   Steve Shramko       steven@cyberocks.com
NJ   Dave Slaymaker      dh10000@yahoo.com
CT   Charles Sloan       csloan@snet.net
CA   Jane Grover-Smith   ANGLESEA@webtv.net
CA   Kent Smith          kentnorwood@email.msn.com
NJ   Chris Thorsten      chris@atomic-pc.com
NJ   Jim Tozour          jtozour@home.com
NJ   Earl Verbeek        everbeek@nac.net
PA   John Vidumsky       john.e.vidumsky@usa.dupont.com
PA   Eric Weis           weis@pnpa.net
NM   Dru Wilbur          dwilbur@nmt.edu
VA   David Woolley       DAVEWOOL@webtv.net
FL   Herb Yeates         herb@simplethinking.com
CA   Wayne Young         Wayney@us.ibm.com

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